Why I Can’t Agree With the Bible: 2 Samuel: Part 1


I’ve broken 2 Samuel into 2 parts.
Where we left off, Saul was mercy killed by one of his men. The man returned to David to report what had happened. David had the man who killed Saul killed. Why didn’t God stop him? How did the man deserve to die?
More sexism occurs: David says the love of Jonathon was greater than the love of women while lamenting Jonathon’s death. Why is he even comparing the two?
David decides to move to Hebron, with God’s blessing of course. David is made king of Judah, he was king for 7 years. This claim doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. He’s made king of all of Israel after Ishbosheth’s death, but is king of Judah alone for 7 years. What happened in the missing 5 years? Ishbosheth is made king of Israel. As you may have noticed from my earlier comment, he only reigned for 2 years.
For some reason, some of the Israelites decided it would be fun to have the young Israelites kill each other. This somehow led to a war between David’s and Saul’s people. Though it sounds like it was already going on. Was this the same war as before? What does the young men killing each other have to do with it? Why were they fighting? Did David want the kingship? Why did David have to fight for it if God gave him the kingship? Joab’s family is cursed because Joab killed Abner as a result of the young men fighting.
The head of Ishbosheth is delivered to David. The men who killed him were killed by David’s men. Why was David fighting them if he never intended to kill their leaders? Did he just want a war for the sake of a war?
David is made king of Israel, he ruled for 40 years. David conquers more territory, and takes more wives and concubines. Why?
David and his men for some reason take the Philistines’ idols. Isn’t this a no-no? Isn’t God afraid they’ll decide to worship them? What did they do with them?
God rides on the Ark of the Covenant again. An ox stumbled, so Uzzah caught the ark. God struck down Uzzah for touching the ark. This seems stupid. Is it better to let the ark hit the ground? If it did, who would pick it up? What would happen to them? What about the ox? I’m surprised God didn’t strike it down. David feared the ark as a result (who wouldn’t?), so he left it behind.
David danced for God. Michal hated David for dancing for God. Michal had no children as punishment. This doesn’t seem like much of a punishment. What if she didn’t want kids? And how is jealousy worthy of a punishment? Who wouldn’t be upset if their husband (or wife) kept taking more partners without considering their other partners first?
David decides to build a house for God. God tells him he’s (David) not worthy. He says he’ll build a house for David. God says that David’s son will be his son and he will use men to flog him. Um…what? I would be quite upset if someone told me they were going to beat my children. For any reason. David’s throne will supposedly last forever. Last time I checked, the Jews don’t have a king. Did God lie? David says that God is great for what he has done. But…God hasn’t done anything yet. He just made a promise. David slept with a woman and got her pregnant. Does this count as adultery? Because David never gets punished for it. Joab is told to take a city. David marries the dead leaders wife. How many wives does David have? David is accused of taking from the poor to avoid giving up his own stuff because he took another wife. David is told that all his wives would be taken away. What is it with David and women? And why doesn’t God say “don’t kill men and take their wives” before he has to punish David? David’s sin is taken away, but his son is killed as punishment. His son becomes ill when he hit hit him. This is immoral on 2 fronts. First, how did the son deserve to die because his father sinned? And second, why did David hit his kid? Because he was mad about being reprimanded? Solomon is born to David to replace the one that died…because God loved David. Lovely.
Tamar, the daughter of David, isn’t referred to as the daughter of David, rather, she is referred to as the sister of Absalom son of David. This seems silly and roundabout. Amnon says that he has become obsessed with Tamar, his brother Absalom’s sister…so…his sister? Yup…his sister. Isn’t that a sin? Doesn’t God tell Moses that people aren’t to sleep with their siblings? Tamar is asked to bake bread for Amnon so that he can eat from her hands. That sounds creepy enough on its own. He raped his sister. Then he hates her. It seems odd to hate your sister because you raped her…then again, I’m not a rapist, so raping someone sounds odd to me. It’s considered worse that he didn’t marry her than it is that he raped her. Isn’t is a sin to marry your sibling? And how would that make the rape okay? Who would want to marry and live with their rapist? Tamar is told to not take it to heart. Her brother raped her. Which part shouldn’t she take to heart? How could she avoid taking it to heart?
Absalom hated Amnon for disgracing Tamar. So his sister shouldn’t take it to heart, but it’s okay for him to. Then again, I can imagine it would be hard not to hate someone for raping someone you love. Absalom orders his men to kill Amnon, all of Absalom’s brothers fled, as did Absalom. Absalom goes into hiding.

Advertisements

20 responses to “Why I Can’t Agree With the Bible: 2 Samuel: Part 1

  • WHERE IS THE LOVE? | BLOGGERNEECY

    […] Why I Can’t Agree With the Bible: 2 Samuel: Part 1 […]

    Like

  • Maina

    Hessiawithteeth, I admire your honesty in questioning these things. Truth is revealed to those who honestly seek. It has been my discovery that truth is actually a person, Jesus Christ – spoken of throughout the old testament of the bible in futuristic terms, and in the new testament as a present reality. An adventurous journey for sure, but also many bulbs light up along the otherwise dark way I must say.

    Thank you for visiting my blog – am glad you found it worth following.

    Blessings to you on your journey,

    Patrick

    Like

    • pastorstarnes

      Look at all the bad decisions Pharaoh made up to that point. Even in verse 7 of Exodus chapter 9, it says that Pharaoh’s heart was stubborn (NLT). You also have to consider that this was the old covenant. It was a time of legalism. There was a very strict set of laws given, and you followed them, or reaped the consequences. We are now under a new covenant of grace. God’s desire is for all men to come to the knowledge of the truth (see 1 Tim. 2:4). I think you are finding so many “errors” because you are not looking at the Bible objectively. Your mind is made up that God is non-existent, and the Bible is a fairy tale. I pray that God would give you understanding as you read, and allow you to see past the human words, to the divine Author. I would also like to recommend to you a book, “More Than A Carpenter,” by Josh McDowell. It’s inexpensive, and well worth the read. Have a wonderful day,

      God bless,

      Pastor Clint

      Like

  • Craig Truglia

    Actually, the Bible says God and pharaoh hardened pharaoh’s heart.

    “God takes away the freewill of a lot of people. Everyone whose heart he has hardened isn’t free to choose. So why is he willing to do it sometimes and not others?”

    It is a matter of grace. God has mercy on some and does not harden their hearts (hardening occurs from the free decision of the heart to be tempted by Satan, God is in control of this because God sets limits for Satan to act). God is not compelled to give the same measures of mercy to all, in fact some will receive no mercy whatsoever. Because, we must remember, Christians operate under the assumption that every single man is a sinner and falls short of the glory of God. I have sinned today, and I am sure you have sinned in the last 24 hours. The unjust thing is for God to forgive anyone, but He is not only just but also merciful, however mercy is not the only aspect of God’s nature and He is not forced to give mercy to anyone, let alone everyone.

    “Isn’t it contradictory to say that “you are free to choose, but I’ll punish you if you make the wrong choice.””

    Why? If God destroyed everyone before they acted upon the evil they were soon to do, there would be no people on this planet.

    Lastly, though man is free, he is not completely autonomous. God can affect the hearts of men to propel them to do good or to propel them to act upon the depths of wickedness in their own hearts. The Scripture has examples of both.

    Like

  • pastorstarnes

    If I may, I would like to respectfully offer a response to your post. I will try to break it down into sections, as it will cover quite a lot of information. I have copied and pasted your post, and will go through each segment.

    “Where we left off, Saul was mercy killed by one of his men. The man returned to David to report what had happened. David had the man who killed Saul killed. Why didn’t God stop him? How did the man deserve to die?”

    This answer will serve as a reference for many of your questions. God is not going to stop us from making our own decisions. When God created the earth, He gave man authority over the earth (see Genesis 1:26-28, God tells them to reign over the earth). He allowed us to make our own decisions. Because of that, He will not interfere when we make up our mind to do something. When man sinned, however, they allowed sin to enter in to all the world (see Romans 5:12-21). Because of this, man gave their authority to reign over the earth to Lucifer, who is called the “god of this world” (see 2 Corinthians 4:4). Some may argue that we should not be punished for the sins of original man, but the truth is, we have all sinned. We have all done wrong, myself included. Especially when you consider Christ’s teachings that sin originates in our very thoughts, so, therefore, thinking about an affair would actually constitute adultery. Now, back to David. Again, God is not going to stop anyone from doing anything. David had the man killed, because he killed Saul, God’s anointed, chosen king. Yes, Saul was pursuing David. He wanted to kill David. But David still saw Saul as God’s chosen king. Did the man deserve to die? No, probably not. David chose to kill him, though, and God isn’t going to interfere with our free will. To me, this shows that, even though we are human and make mistakes, God will still forgive us, and loves us.

    “More sexism occurs: David says the love of Jonathon was greater than the love of women while lamenting Jonathon’s death. Why is he even comparing the two?”

    David viewed Jonathon as a brother. He was heartbroke over Jonathon’s death. If you have a sibling that you are extremely close to, would your bond not be stronger than that of anyone else?

    “David decides to move to Hebron, with God’s blessing of course. David is made king of Judah, he was king for 7 years. This claim doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. He’s made king of all of Israel after Ishbosheth’s death, but is king of Judah alone for 7 years. What happened in the missing 5 years? Ishbosheth is made king of Israel. As you may have noticed from my earlier comment, he only reigned for 2 years.”

    If you read in 2 Samuel 2:10, it says Ishbosheth ruled from Mahanaim for two years. If you drop down to verse 12, though, you see that Ishbosheth was moved from Mahanaim to Gibeon, where he finished his reign as king.

    “For some reason, some of the Israelites decided it would be fun to have the young Israelites kill each other. This somehow led to a war between David’s and Saul’s people. Though it sounds like it was already going on. Was this the same war as before? What does the young men killing each other have to do with it? Why were they fighting? Did David want the kingship? Why did David have to fight for it if God gave him the kingship? Joab’s family is cursed because Joab killed Abner as a result of the young men fighting.”

    The war is going on because the nation of Israel is split. Ishbosheth is fighting David to retain his royal family lineage. David is chosen by God to be king. However, God works on the earth through men. He is using David to reunite Israel. Is it brutal? Yes. Was much of it unnecessary? Yes. To me, it’s a lesson in disobedience. God allows us to have reign over our own lives. When we don’t follow His rules, however, there are severe consequences.

    “The head of Ishbosheth is delivered to David. The men who killed him were killed by David’s men. Why was David fighting them if he never intended to kill their leaders? Did he just want a war for the sake of a war?”

    David loved Saul’s family. If you continue reading through the Old Testament, you will see that it was common in those days for the leaders of an opposing kingdom to be allowed to remain alive. They were often kept in the court of the new king. It kept the conquered people in control, kept them from attempting to usurp the current government, because they saw their leaders alive. David had no desire to kill any of them, not even Saul.

    “David is made king of Israel, he ruled for 40 years. David conquers more territory, and takes more wives and concubines. Why?”

    Simple answer? He was an idiot. It was a cultural thing though. The more wives and concubines a man had, the more powerful he appeared. It was a symbol of wealth and authority. This is the reason Absalom slept with David’s wives.

    “David and his men for some reason take the Philistines’ idols. Isn’t this a no-no? Isn’t God afraid they’ll decide to worship them? What did they do with them?”

    What did they do with them? Who knows. Why did they do it? This is my theory – it shows that not only could a people be conquered, but so could their deity. They worshiped and drew strength and courage from these idols. This was showing that our God is greater than your god. Much like the plagues that God sent upon Egypt during the Exodus. All of the plagues revolved around things the Egyptians of that day worshiped. Again, our God is greater than these false idols.

    “God rides on the Ark of the Covenant again. An ox stumbled, so Uzzah caught the ark. God struck down Uzzah for touching the ark. This seems stupid. Is it better to let the ark hit the ground? If it did, who would pick it up? What would happen to them? What about the ox? I’m surprised God didn’t strike it down. David feared the ark as a result (who wouldn’t?), so he left it behind.”

    The point here, is that they didn’t follow God’s original commands for transporting the ark. Had they researched the Law of Moses, they would have known how to move it properly.

    “David danced for God. Michal hated David for dancing for God. Michal had no children as punishment. This doesn’t seem like much of a punishment. What if she didn’t want kids? And how is jealousy worthy of a punishment? Who wouldn’t be upset if their husband (or wife) kept taking more partners without considering their other partners first?”

    You have to keep in mind here the Hebrew culture. It was considered an embarrassment to be barren. This was actually quite severe, considering the culture. Did she have a right to be upset? Absolutely! Her husband was an adulterer and murderer after all.

    “David decides to build a house for God. God tells him he’s (David) not worthy.”

    Because of all the war David had been involved in, all the blood on David’s hands, God gave the privilege of building the temple to Solomon.

    “ He says he’ll build a house for David. God says that David’s son will be his son and he will use men to flog him. Um…what? I would be quite upset if someone told me they were going to beat my children. For any reason. David’s throne will supposedly last forever. Last time I checked, the Jews don’t have a king. Did God lie? David says that God is great for what he has done. But…God hasn’t done anything yet. He just made a promise.”

    This is the best part of the whole book. This is a Messianic prophecy. God built a kingdom for David, and his descendant will always be on the throne. That descendant is Jesus Christ. God’s Son, and a descendant of David. He was beaten and crucified by men. Jesus Christ will one day reign as king, and God’s promise to David will be fulfilled.

    “David slept with a woman and got her pregnant. Does this count as adultery? Because David never gets punished for it.”

    Yes, it is. David is punished. The child dies. David repents, God forgives.

    “Joab is told to take a city. David marries the dead leaders wife. How many wives does David have? David is accused of taking from the poor to avoid giving up his own stuff because he took another wife. David is told that all his wives would be taken away. What is it with David and women? And why doesn’t God say “don’t kill men and take their wives” before he has to punish David? David’s sin is taken away, but his son is killed as punishment. His son becomes ill when he hit hit him. This is immoral on 2 fronts. First, how did the son deserve to die because his father sinned? And second, why did David hit his kid? Because he was mad about being reprimanded? Solomon is born to David to replace the one that died…because God loved David. Lovely.”

    David knows better than to do these things. Pride and ego are to blame. He’s king, he can do whatever he wants. Doesn’t make it right. Did the child deserve to die? No. But this was a much worse punishment than if God had just killed David. I don’t know what you are referring to about David hitting his child. I don’t see that anywhere in 2 Samuel 12. God loves us all, and offers forgiveness and redemption to all. I’m glad He doesn’t hold my sin against me…

    “Tamar, the daughter of David, isn’t referred to as the daughter of David, rather, she is referred to as the sister of Absalom son of David. This seems silly and roundabout. Amnon says that he has become obsessed with Tamar, his brother Absalom’s sister…so…his sister? Yup…his sister. Isn’t that a sin? Doesn’t God tell Moses that people aren’t to sleep with their siblings?”

    Yes, it is a sin, but it happened. Too frequently. The reason Tamar is referred to this way, is because women had no value. Only men were seen as having value. That is a cultural thing that is still prevalent in middle eastern culture.

    “Tamar is asked to bake bread for Amnon so that he can eat from her hands. That sounds creepy enough on its own. He raped his sister. Then he hates her. It seems odd to hate your sister because you raped her…then again, I’m not a rapist, so raping someone sounds odd to me. It’s considered worse that he didn’t marry her than it is that he raped her. Isn’t is a sin to marry your sibling? And how would that make the rape okay? Who would want to marry and live with their rapist? Tamar is told to not take it to heart. Her brother raped her. Which part shouldn’t she take to heart? How could she avoid taking it to heart?”

    Again, women had no value. Raping women still happens frequently in the middle east. All that you mentioned is sin. There is no justifying it or making it ok. There are bad things that happened in the Bible. But if we leave them out, how can we know the goodness and grace of God to forgive us?

    “Absalom hated Amnon for disgracing Tamar. So his sister shouldn’t take it to heart, but it’s okay for him to. Then again, I can imagine it would be hard not to hate someone for raping someone you love. Absalom orders his men to kill Amnon, all of Absalom’s brothers fled, as did Absalom. Absalom goes into hiding.”

    We are all human. I would take it to heart. I’m sure you would as well. I’m not sure Absalom was telling Tamar “don’t take it to heart.” I think he was more so telling her, “don’t worry, I’ll handle this” (see New Living Translation of 2 Samuel 13). I think he had planned to kill Amnon all along. Regardless, murder is wrong. Absalom feared what his father would do if he went home. So he went into hiding.

    I hope this helps. Feel free to ask any further questions you may have.

    God bless,

    Pastor Clint

    Like

    • hessianwithteeth

      God takes away the freewill of a lot of people. Everyone whose heart he has hardened isn’t free to choose. So why is he willing to do it sometimes and not others? Why is Saul’s killer allowed to kill and then punished for it? Isn’t it contradictory to say that “you are free to choose, but I’ll punish you if you make the wrong choice.” Isn’t that just another way of removing the freewill that God supposedly gave us?

      Like

      • pastorstarnes

        God doesn’t remove the freewill. Our hearts are hardened because of our decision to repeatedly deny the existence and power of God. When you were a kid, your parents gave you choices. Do this, or don’t do that. You were praised for making the right choice, and punished for making the wrong. God is no different. He allows us to make our own choices, and we have to be prepared to live with the consequences.

        God bless,

        Pastor Clint

        Like

  • Craig Truglia

    “An ox stumbled, so Uzzah caught the ark. God struck down Uzzah for touching the ark. This seems stupid. Is it better to let the ark hit the ground? If it did, who would pick it up? What would happen to them? What about the ox? I’m surprised God didn’t strike it down.”

    The ox was doing its job. The mud was doing its job. Uzzah made the presumption that by grabbing the ark, he was less defiled than the mud. Being that there is no sin in mud and no sin in an ox, Uzzah is actually much more defiling than either of those two. God is so holy, he can’t even look upon sin, so God stuck Uzzah dead for his lack of understanding of his own unholiness in light of God infinite holiness.

    Like

    • hessianwithteeth

      Do you really think about your holiness when you see something falling and instinctively reach for it? I don’t.
      And how can mud have a job? It’s not conscious. It’s merely wet dirt. God has killed animals in the Old Testament for less.

      Like

      • Craig Truglia

        “Do you really think about your holiness when you see something falling and instinctively reach for it? I don’t.”

        Exactly, and neither do I, because we are not holy. We don’t really operate on a daily basis really appreciating how unlike God we are and how defiled our actions and thoughts are.

        Dirt has a job, BTW, being dirty. Do you have an example of an animal getting “killed for less?” On the top of my head, I can’t think of one. Animals are usually killed for sacrifice, or in war (like hamstringing chariot horses.)

        Like

        • hessianwithteeth

          If we can’t truly understand how unholy we are, how can we be punished for it? Does that sound just to you?

          Like

          • Craig Truglia

            A crime is not defined by a criminal’s understanding of how wrong his actions are. In fact, if a sociopath says it’s no big deal to kill people because he is a mensa member and the people he killed were not, it does not seem just to me to let him off because his values are warped.

            Ultimately, the reality of God precludes an understanding of justice that is in opposition to the Lord who created justice. Justice is not defined by the creation or its creatures, nor does it revolve around them. Such a view of justice is anthropocentric. Rather, the only understanding of justice that can even begin making sense is a Theocentric one where it is God who is the decider of things just and as taught in our Scriptures, righteousness is consistent with His nature. This makes God the better measure of justice and holiness than man.

            So, Uzzah’s whole worldview was twisted. He was concerned about the mud. His intentions by man’s standards were good, we don’t like nice things getting dirty. But, our standards revolved around human thoughts and feelings, putting man at the center and using man as the measure of all things. However, man is not holy like God. Man is the wrong measure. Uzzah didn’t get that.

            Like

          • Craig Truglia

            Not really, but again your logical error is using man as the measure of justice rather than God.

            Like

  • Amyclae

    Hopefully I’m not the only one who finds a small irony in the fact that there are only two groups who read the an English translation of the Bible literally, and take its ‘plain’ meaning as self-evident. One: fundamentalists who let snakes bit them. The other, well, needs no introduction. I’m not sure the differences are substantial.

    Like

  • pastormatt2013

    So I see that you are now following my explicitly Christian blog. I am now following your explicitly non-Christian blog. I do say this is a good thing. I presume, perhaps out of vanity, that based on my blog, you find me a worthy dialoguer and that is your reason for following me. If that presumption is correct, I thank you for the compliment, and look forward to reading your posts, and maybe conversing in the future. Good day.

    Like

    • hessianwithteeth

      I enjoy reading what certain Christian bloggers have to say. Sadly, many are only interested in bashing non-Christians, but, for the ones who actually have something interesting to say, it’s nice to hear a different perspective on things. It keeps my beliefs honest and keeps me respectful of those I disagree with ;). Looking forward to what you have to say in the future.

      Like

  • Why I Can't Agree With the Bible: 2 Samuel: Part 1 | Christians Anonymous

    […] Source: Why I Can’t Agree With the Bible: 2 Samuel: Part 1 […]

    Like

  • faith2526

    I understand how you feel. The fact that you are reading the Bible shows that you are interested in the truth. I remember those days when after reading the Bible, I’d be more confused than answered so I stopped the habit. One thing I learned, the truth behind the Bible is revealed not through our limited understanding but through the power of the Holy Spirit. The 66 books of the Bible aren’t what they appear to be. They contain secrets. Each being a prophecy can only be revealed by the author of the book. I pray that you may experience the enlightenment I did. God bless you with the wisdom and understanding you need.

    Like

  • chicagoja

    Pretty brutal and all in the name of God.

    Like

Tell us what you think

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: