Yep you, yes you reading this. Your probability sexist. Though don’t get angry or indigent. I’m not making a character judgement, I’m not saying your bad people. What I’m saying if that you like me, and just about everyone has to some level been exposed to sexist ideas and thoughts that you’ve incorporated, unconsciously or consciously some sexist ideas. I know I have, I still sometimes struggle to make sure I take what a women’s word at the same level as a mans, it can be very easy to dismiss someones opinion unfairly simplely because they express as a woman. While I’ve improved dramatically over the last few years as I’ve realized all the times and ways women are suppressed in our society (and how I have too often played into it). I still have to look long and hard at some of my actions before I’m sure I’m not letting that particular bias slip in, and some times even though I try sexist biases slip in anyway.
So I’m not saying your a horrible person or hate women, but are you sure you’ve been looking hard at your actions? Are your sure your not playing into the systemic oppression of women (or other groups for that matter)?
We don’t have to be perfect, I know I’m not, but are we taking stock? Are we being introspective, critical of our own actions and thoughts?
Withteeth
hessianwithteeth 
October 22nd, 2014 at 9:17 am
It’s the same with racism or any other prejudice. We all have preconceived notions that have been programmed into our brains throughout our lives. We just need to be aware that some of these preconceived notions that we have aren’t necessarily true and that if we have prejudices we need to work on them. The only way we can make sure we don’t act on our prejudices is by being aware of them first.
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October 14th, 2014 at 2:19 pm
Oh wow, I appreciate honesty. Thank you for sharing!
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October 14th, 2014 at 12:36 pm
I agree! Similarly, I would contend, we’re all a bit racist too! (Even the good guys!) http://mitchteemley.com/2014/08/29/are-we-racists/
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October 13th, 2014 at 2:57 am
I apologise for the grammatical inaccuracies of my post, I usually proof read twice but was in a bit of a rush to post.
I also like to point out that we must be careful not to convict people of thought crime. Slippery slope.
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October 13th, 2014 at 2:03 pm
Of course. There’s nothing illegal or inherently immoral about having a sexist thought, none of us are perfect. It’s just a question as to weather you are, and to what extent you are aware of which thoughts are sexist, and how those thoughts may may colour your choices. It is driven by self policing, as you can’t really get into another person head. Because of that it does necessarily follow in a slippery slope manner that it will become a thought crime that’s too much of a stretch and you’d see it coming. It’s not impossible, but it does not easily follow either.
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October 13th, 2014 at 2:54 am
Although I will not contest that most (if not all) people have at some point said or done something that could be considered sexist but the standards of today, I do have a number of issues with your post. I would still like to thank you for this post however.
My first issue is that you are looking at one side of the coin, the side that deals with the issues suffered by women. At no point do you even refer to issues suffered by men. To think men don’t have any issues in this area would be a gross demonstration of ignorance.
I will not begin to compare the issues faced by both genders because it would be beside the point, the truth is that there are problems on both sides and both men and women need to slowly change the way they think/react to each other.
You cannot establish equality between two genders by focussing purely on the needs of one of them.
You are right in saying that men need to take a moment to consider their actions. I do feel however that the premise of your article is incomplete however.
I published a post today on this actually, id be grateful if you could look and perhaps provide some feedback/debate? I have a suspicion we are of a similar mind on the whole
Regards,
LL
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October 13th, 2014 at 9:16 pm
Well the problem isn’t that I don’t give a complete picture, you simply can’t encapsulate all of this in a single post, so I don’t try. Rather I attempt to making interesting and invocation posts which make people think about these topics in order for them to dig deeper themselves.
While I’m aware of many of the plights that sexism and patriarchy inflect on men, men still benefit the most from those societal biases, so rather then adding an asterix to everything I focus on the problems women face, and sometimes focus on the problems men face.
What I hear when I hear men (I don’t know how you identify so this may or may not apply to you) say things like. Well men are affected by sexism too! what I hear is “Why doesn’t this equality thing have more to do with me.”
Why I don’t feel this is out of place is because when men bring up men’s issues, its rare for anyone to speak up and say, “but what about women, unless of course the room is full of feminists.” But when some one is focusing on women’s rights you almost always here someone complaining that men aren’t getting some of the attention. This is an over generalization, but seriously I don’t have to talk about men’s issue unless I feel it’s directly relevant. In the above post I focused on women, but if I excluded men at all it because I was talking about oppressed groups. Men are not oppressed and white men (who do not fit in some other minority, such as LGBT, or disabled) do not belong in discussions of oppressed group except as advocates.
That’s harsh, but as a white cis-man with out some sort of trait or fact of life making me a minority I am not oppressed systematically. Like I’m told to be a man, and to man it up, but that’s hardly a factor when just because I’m a white man, I can relatively easily get a job, I don’t get pulled over, people listen to what I have to say. Life’s pretty good, however I also want women, all other thing being equal, to have the same feeling as I about getting a job and being listened too as an equal, among other things. Obviously (or I hope that it’s obvious) I want this for all oppressed groups, but my battles are advocating for women and LGBTQIA folks. If you want to focus on mens issues that great, do that. But it is more helpful to share what your doing rather then telling feminist that they shouldn’t focus so much on women, or that they don’t have a full picture.
Most of us do have a pretty goo picture, but if you feel some is misrepresenting something, get very specific, and give examples. Otherwise you’ll probably be mistaken as just another anti-feminist complaining that women still want equality.
Like you tell me men have all these issues (and men do have some) however you like just about everyone else that makes is point don’t actually give examples, and of course you can bring equality by focusing on one of the genders, and guess what men are focused on for most of their lives, so I don’t waste my time giving them more then equal time in feminism to men.
Remember equal treatment does not mean the same treatment. (like men don’t need their rights to abortion protected, for example)
I may give your post a look over, though I am busy so I can’t promise anything.
Withteeth
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October 11th, 2014 at 3:15 pm
I gave you a ‘like’ … but actually I love this~!
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October 11th, 2014 at 4:40 pm
Well thank you!
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October 10th, 2014 at 4:01 pm
This is definitely true and I think it goes both ways. Gender stereotypes are limiting for both men and women.
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October 10th, 2014 at 5:05 pm
Yep :). Thanks for stopping by!
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October 10th, 2014 at 10:21 am
Thanks for speaking to the need for ever-greater equality for men and women. There’s still much work to be done to create true and genuine equity. For instance, still, in the 21st century: roughly 2% of professional US carpenters working today are women. Another example: only about 5% of artworks exhibited worldwide are created by women — though 50% of artists are women! As a female poet, artist, author, and herstorian, I share daily about women’s accomplishments at http://susanpowersbourne.net.
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October 10th, 2014 at 11:39 am
Thanks for stopping by we look forward to reading more of what you have to say in the future.
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October 9th, 2014 at 6:28 am
…omg… we have been sexiest…all this time..smh hellllp us lol
Great article it’s definitely a eye open
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October 8th, 2014 at 9:28 pm
I personally think that the feminism movement has the wrong focus. It seems to me that instead of bashing men and building women up as an empire, we should be focusing on the original goal of the feminist movement: equality. I think that goal would best be achieved by focusing less on men and women and the differences and stereotypes associated with the genders, and focusing more on people and the common ground we share. I feel this would be better for all involved including the “victimized” men
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October 8th, 2014 at 10:13 pm
rofl, this is relevant to my post how? Your unoriginal talking points fail to encapsulate what I’m talking about here or how gender and gender presentation is directly linked to many of the inequalities that exist. Further sexism isn’t simplely linked to women, it effects all genders, nor is it the case that all sexism negative to all parties at all times. However people love bringing up all the victimized men, and sure people get victimized all the time for many reasons, but specifically how is a victimized man relevant here. I’m sure there is a case (many in fact), but in my experience it’s always just assumed. Especially when most men (and boys under 18 who are far more likely to be victims) who are victimized are victimized by other men.
Really what is your point? Why bother posting when it seem clear you haven’t even read my post, or at least failed to read critically, painting your own anti-feminist assumptions all over it.
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October 9th, 2014 at 5:35 am
Wow. The themes were about sexism which is a prevelant theme to both the feminist movement and to people who victimize men. I was trying to use a new perspective. Also, i quoted the word victimize in my comment. I was being sarcastic. I thought the point of a blog was the encouragement of different ideas and to promote discussion? I really liked the post and was trying to relate it to other things. Thats what people do. They take new information and relate it back to their experience. Lastly, I did fully read the post and all the comments. I dont know why you are so frustrated with me and I won’t comment on your posts anymore since it’s clear that all youre looking for is affirmation instead of discussion. Also, insulting your readers isnt a great way to gain loyalty and expand the viewership of your blog.
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October 9th, 2014 at 11:52 am
If you want to start a discussion, then say something to discuss. You do realize that your comment came across as MRA non-sense, don’t you? We’ve long since lost all our respect for the MRA movement.
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October 9th, 2014 at 12:07 pm
I have respect for you and your words even if I don’t agree with them. Would you do the same for me please? If you can’t disagree with that I say without disregarding me as a person, then I’m done following your blog and I’m sorry that you can’t see the dignity in a human being and disagree with them at the same time. Do not call my words “unoriginal” or “non-sense” or any of the other rude things you’ve said. I am a person with ideas. Some of them are wrong and I will openly acknowledge that, but I do not let my worth as human be disregarded. Also, the next time you make a post consider editing or using a spell check because your spelling, punctuation, and grammar are awful. Thank you
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October 9th, 2014 at 12:12 pm
Right now, I don’t really care if you unfollow. For one, I’m not the author of the post or the first comment, but I don’t think Withteeth deserves your disrespect. Maybe he was a bit too sarcastic, but what you said was missing the whole point of his post. Also, Withteeth has dysgraphia, you asshole.
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October 9th, 2014 at 7:43 pm
My comment was unfair in it’s tone, however you did fail to address the topic at hand and went into talking about how feminism isn’t nice enough to men. Well I have little patience for that argument, and being nice doesn’t get you anywhere with a privledged group of people, they expect it, and some time even thing they deserve it, that they’ve earned it.
Though your word are not original I’ve hear the same argument a dozen times from a dozen different people. You may have thought it up yourself, I know others have, but it’s repeated over and over, with so little thought behind it that I find it grating. So I will apologies for taking that frustration out on you.
Also I have no doubt your a descent human being or at least I have no strong reasons to think otherwise. Your dignity as a human is not up for debate. I just think your arguments towards feminism found above are not well thought out and unoriginal. You don’t have to like that but that is my opinion based on my experience arguing about feminism.
However, all that said. I find nothing so grating and aggravating as the sort of people who are so over concerned with grammar and spelling that it some how becomes a black mark on you because you happened to not proof read an thoroughly one day. And please, spell check does shit all.
I’m my own editor most of the time, and I have dysgraphia. In practice that means that I need to proof read an extra 1 or 2 times to be at the same level as your average person at the same writing skill. It’s irritating when you just don’t have time. Not to mention I did proof read this article twice, but then I had other work to do. But really I don’t need to justify any of that to you. I just felt like it.
Withteeth
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October 8th, 2014 at 7:31 pm
I struggle constantly with generalizations. Being a woman, I don’t associate with women. Part personality type that is very rare in women (INTP) and part cause of the stereotypes I find true more often than not (gossipy, etc). I’m the only female server in my restaurant right now because that stereotype is assumed from applicants…. and they simply don’t hire. Granted, they’ve had many hires proove it true… but that still doesn’t warrant applying that to any individual, as an individual.
Yeah, I’m sexist. And racist. And religion-ist. And probably a lot more. But…. hrm. It’s hard to differentiate, also, I think, preferences from -isms. I don’t have an attraction for Asian men, for example. Have them as friends, but sexually I have nothing. Nada. Is that the racist in me? Or just my personal preference?
Iffy. The lines are very gray, I think. But I do think it is important also for us all to introspect over them, and truly think.
Great post, thank you for writing it so boldly!
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October 8th, 2014 at 3:58 pm
“Are you sure you’re not playing into the systemic oppression of women, or other groups…” This is my favourite line. Refreshing! I must share this thought with many people I know.
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October 8th, 2014 at 8:30 am
I promise I’m not at all indigent at my sexist probability.
Nor even indignant at the suggestion that I’m sexist. Awareness is the first step of control and elimination, and I strive mightily in this and racism both.
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October 8th, 2014 at 7:24 am
Reblogged this on Beware the Fury of a Patient Man.
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October 8th, 2014 at 5:43 am
Thought provoking and in your face. I like it.
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October 8th, 2014 at 3:41 am
Reblogged this on Dear Beloveds and commented:
“Your probability sexist” forget “probability”, make it are a … But how to divine sex, people with people, people with animals, people helping them self… it’s all in thought. (Mind) Even when you don’t think direct about sex, what about smoking a cigarette, that’s sucks, what about ‘ice-scream’. and so on… So forget “probability”. And plz go on listen to some music…
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October 8th, 2014 at 3:35 am
I don’t believe I am sexist.
Men and women differ biologically, therefore psychologically. This is to be expected.
One problem with your post is the view that “women are suppressed”, that is, women are victims. Why are men victimizing women and not the other way around? Are women inherently better than men? If so, why is that? How could that come to be?
Aren’t some men victimizing other men? Similarly for women? Why focus only on how women are victimized? Why not show concern for men as victims?
It’s best not to use the victim mentality. Women have to fight for their rights, just as men do. There is no “master arbiter” who decides these things in advance.
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October 8th, 2014 at 1:40 pm
Well by my reading you seem to have missed the point of this post. I’m saying, and I’m certainly not the first, that we all hold sexist (as well ass racist/classist) attitudes. The question really is are we (any given person) self-aware enough to pick out when these undue biases arise in ourselves and work on changing that. The question isn’t if your sexist, it’s how sexist are you and what are you doing to change that.
“Men and women differ biologically, therefore psychologically. This is to be expected.”
Is it? Based on what? certainty we might think that, but it isn’t a given. It falls back to good old nature vs nurture,
and that’s a debate that is still raging. So if you have found some key information solving this problem in regards to men vs women I’d love if you shared it with me, because all the hard science I’ve seen indicates that the overall variation between the mental capacities of men and women is so small that there is no reason to think that given equal education and opportunity women wouldn’t do just as well as men. Sure there’s lots of variation between given people, but overall when comparing these two sexes against each other this variation cancels out.
I also vehemently disagree that pointing out how someone is victimized turns that person into a victim. Sure if you ignore all other facets about them you essentializing them as victims and that’s a problem (because now you’ve taken way much of their agency). But people who are victimized are victims by definition. The more important problem is how we address victimization, and do we essentialize their victimhood, or do we work to tackle the causes of their victimization working with them and others? Further calling it by another name doesn’t change much, and ignoring it makes one complicit in it to some degree.
“It’s best not to use the victim mentality. Women have to fight for their rights, just as men do. ”
Because we men need to “fight” for our rights. Like what? I’m pretty comfy here on top of all my white male privileged I don’t see how I have to fight for any of my male privileges and “rights.”
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October 9th, 2014 at 11:45 pm
“Men and women differ biologically, therefore psychologically. This is to be expected.” Most basic evidence of this: men are generally attracted to women, and women to men. You believe this is taught behavior? I believe it evolved for the species survival. It is biologically based. Ergo, biological differences lead to psycholigical differences.
“I also vehemently disagree that pointing out how someone is victimized turns that person into a victim.” If women=men, then why are women victimized by men and not the other way around? Why at least is it not 50-50? How could such a lopsided relationship occur between two demonstrably equal species? Suggesting that women are more the victim than men is by your definition “sexist”, because it suggests women and men are not equal.
“I don’t see how I have to fight for any of my male privileges and “rights.”” Someone else fought for you, it would seem. That’s fine, you need not appreciate it. But perhaps it would help if you did. Why are you not tortured and subjugated, like so many historically have been?
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October 10th, 2014 at 1:23 am
To address your comment by each paragraph.
First:
That fails to back your wide sweeping assertions that there must be significant difference between men and women in how they think. Also you fail to explain LGBTQA people under that limiting model. I’ve not say that differences do not exist I’m saying that the research is very unclear. Yes most women find masculine traits more attractive then do men and vise versa, but what we find attractive is without doubt influenced by culture and what surrounds us early in life. There is very much a portion of nurture mixed with the nature. All I’m saying is you can’t be nearly as sure as you seem to be and have a good grip on the limited neuroscience that exists, and the research in the social sciences on this matter. Let alone the complex social interactions that are going on. The jury is still out on this one, and scientific discussion has hardly begun let alone that any form scientific consensus found.
Second:
I never said women=men that’s a gross simplification of my position. So far I’ve only been discussing mental skills and capacity. So please stop strawmaning my position.
Besides even if men and women are equal in almost all senses that doesn’t exclude the possibility that women could be treated unfairly.
“How could such a lopsided relationship occur between two demonstrably equal species?”
(btw different sexes are not different species, we are very much the same species, but I’ll assume you misspoke)
Millennia of patriarchy which could have arisen from random chance, however, I’m not and I doubt anyone is sure about. How come your so sure there has to be a biological reason for it? Perhaps the slight strength differences between men and women in upper body strength (yes that exists, and no that doesn’t invalidate by other arguments, why because muscle density doesn’t directly correlate with your grey matter.) tipped the power balance of men and women in pre-written history towards men which slowly but surely built up over the millennia. Those are just some possibilities for you to mull over.
Third:
What the heck is this suppose to mean, I’m not disregarding the hard work of men and women of the past who’ve fought hard to get me my rights and freedoms (both men and women where part of that fight over the millennia) sure history favors men, but then again it was written by men, and women have, for most of recorded history, been dissuaded from participating in academia in all it’s forms. This final paragraph seem to be a gross misrepresentation of history. However since you hardly explained what you mean I could be giving you far too much credit.
Withteeth
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October 11th, 2014 at 10:50 pm
I’d rather not debate you point by point. For one thing, you are claiming I stated things that I never stated (e.g. “there must be significant difference between men and women in how they think”. Where did I state that?)
My main point is a proclamation for all men and all women: don’t spend your precious time thinking about all the ways you are being “oppressed”. Rather, set your goals and achieve them. To women, why not imagine yourselves as the next Hillary Clinton, the next Meg Whitman, or the next Lisa Su?
The fact that there may be differences between men and women (significant or subtle) is not important. What we need to achieve in our society is equality of opportunity, and the removal of undeserved discrimination. If we achieve that goal, we need not be so concerned with how men and women may differ.
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October 12th, 2014 at 12:20 am
Fair enough I did unfairly stretch what you where saying. However, you did say, “Men and women differ biologically, therefore psychologically.”
This does not necessarily follow. You can believe this is true, and it probably is to some extent, but the extent to which is still very unclear. We know to some extent that there are differences, however the collection methods used in these test do not allow for good hard scalable data, only ordinal data sets. So the full extent to which men and women differ is very unclear. Here’s the best meta study on the matter I know of.
Click to access the_gender_similarities_hypothesis.pdf
Again each of the data sets are ordinal, not ratio scaled (stats terms). Ordinal data is Ordered (generally from low to high) but the difference between each point (most where measured from 1-5) of is not know, and therefore you can really tell to what extent they are different, only that there mostly no significant differences. Only a few differences, notably physical aggression, and physical ability is those handful measured skills, are actually significant.
And even with all that said there is little data on why these differences exist, only that they do. There’s lots of theories but very little hard data.
To dress another major point i think your making. I’m not simply focusing on how women are oppressed. I keep making the point so that we do not try to sweep it under the rug. Because if we are not critical of how women (and other oppressed groups for that matter) are oppressed and what it looks/sounds like. Then how are we going to change behaviors if we can’t even point them out?
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October 8th, 2014 at 3:18 pm
Very true. I totally think there are a lot of victimized men, but what man wants to admit that? Who would support him?
As a woman, I don’t feel suppressed at all. I think it has swung way too much the other way, and women have started to take advantage of it.
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October 8th, 2014 at 6:38 pm
Well it’s good that you don’t feel suppressed, though then again people often don’t feel suppressed if they don’t have an context outside of the systemic oppression around them. No to say you don’t lead an unsuppressed life Christineh90, but the wage gap is still there, women still face far more physical abuse, and general harassment then men.
Also did you know most male victims of sexual violence are under the age 18, and most of those are under the age of 13?
Obviously this isn’t a competition, and all victims should get help and see justice, however (white) men are not typical “oppressed,” as in limited in what they can do or who will listen to them based on the fact they are white dudes. However women in comparison, when all other things equal, are less likely to get jobs, equal pay, accept into high level positions, given raises. Even when compared only to equal and often even less competent male competition.
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October 8th, 2014 at 11:44 pm
If you grew up in society, you’ve absorbed sexist beliefs. When you open your eyes to this stuff, you begin to see it everywhere.
You really ought to read http://usa.everydaysexism.com/ .
All 381 pages of it. Then you’ll have some idea of the many ways that sexism exists all around us. It’s soaked into society. From an early age, such as the idea that women are supposed to be nurturing. Or that they’re supposed to cook and clean. Or that they’re supposed to one day settle down and marry. Or that they shouldn’t get dirty. Or that women shouldn’t burp or fart (gender essentialist BS that says “this is how women are supposed to act”). Or look at how women get ignored in a room full of men. Or look at how men routinely talk over or cut off women. Or look at how women’s concerns are routinely dismissed by men. Or look at how if a woman isn’t feeling well, it’s chalked up to “her time of the month”. Or look at the men who get mad when they compliment a woman but she doesn’t respond. Or look at the men who get mad when they compliment a woman and she responds, but not how they wanted. Or look at the men who get mad when a woman turns them down for a drink or for sex. Or look at any of a wealth of examples of male entitlement.
Or look at literature and see how often male pronouns are the default, ignoring the fact that women and people of other genders exist as well. Or look at the people who say “this is a man’s job. It’s no place for a woman.” Or look at the video game or comic book industry when women criticize the portrayal female characters and get inundated with rape or death threats (yet men don’t get the same treatment when they offer their criticism).
Or look at our cultural traditions like marriage, where the father “gives his daughter away” as if she’s his property (at one time, that’s what women were considered). Or look at how there are still men who ask the permission of a woman’s father to marry his daughter-again, treating her as property rather than a human being. Or look at the sexualization and sexual objectification of women in comic books, travel magazines, in movies, in music, in literature.
Look at the Mormon Church.
Look at fundamentalist religions.
Look at the levels of domestic violence in this country and how women are disproportionately the victims of it.
Look at Rape Culture and how so many men feel that “no means yes”.
There are countless examples of sexism in our culture (assuming, perhaps incorrectly on my part, that you’re in the US, but it’s not like sexism is solely a Western problem-it’s everywhere). We’re soaking in it. It’s affected our perceptions of women and their role in society, just as it’s affected the perception men have about their role in society. These harmful gender roles exist in big ways (no women in politics) and small ways (women shouldn’t belch), and people absorb them, but so very rarely do people consider whether the beliefs they hold about women are reasonable.
You ought to take some time to reflect and examine even the smallest, silliest notion about women that you have. Question everything you know. Question your interactions, honestly. Take the time to look inward, and if you do so skeptically, with an eye to being honest and truthful…you’ll find you have sexist beliefs every bit as much as anyone else. What you do when you confront those beliefs…that’s what will determine how sexist you are. But rest assured, you ARE sexist.
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October 9th, 2014 at 1:05 am
Why thank you Tony a lovely comment if I’ve ever seen one.
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October 9th, 2014 at 9:30 am
Its a lovely comment because he basically regurgitated what you said
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