Why Are People So Concerned About Gender NonConforming Children? Part 2


im-from-driftwood

The next video I watched was dateline type show about gender nonconforming children. The first comment I came across on that video said “‘if you say you’re a woman, you’re a woman’ – I completely disagree with that… saying so simply does not make you one neither does getting a transplant and taking steroids. women reproduce and men can’t so no matter how much you change up your body you will always be what you were born as. that being said, people have the right to do what they want with themselves once it doesn’t affect others negatively because its THEIR LIVES…we may not always accept something but we sometimes need to learn to mind our business, stop being judgemental and move forward in our own lives because we all have dirty hands and skeletons in our closets.” Wait…men can’t reproduce? You mean sperm is useless? Then where does genetic variance come from? And why are there men? Oh wait, you mean men can’t get pregnant. So, by your definition, anyone who can’t get pregnant is a man. That means that women who are infertile are men. And any woman who has gone through menopause was a woman but is now a man. Also, “man” and “woman” are gender terms, not sex terms. If reproduction was tied to our sex, which, as it turns out, it’s not, it would mean that females, not women, can give birth.
The next comment said “Someone should put an end to these freaks…Btw, I’m a candy bar, because I say so.” Lovely. So anyone that you deem abnormal should be killed. People really need to stop comparing gender nonconformity with random shit. Gender is complicated. It’s the result of our genetic make-up, our hormones, and our environment. It is not unreasonable to think that a person could be biologically female buy identify as a man. But we don’t have any chocolate bar DNA in us. We don’t have hormones in us that can cause us to identify as a chocolate bar. But if you want to be a chocolate bar, go for it. Just don’t stand in the chocolate bar isle and try to convince people to buy you: that would probably get you arrested.
The next commenter said “I don’t see a problem with this….. HE IS A DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be gay all day but you don’t pretend you are a different sex. As soon as everyone can support me in my feeling that I am your king and do what I say I will support you thinking you are something that you are not.” I really don’t get why this concept is so hard: sex isn’t gender. A.K.A your penis doesn’t make you a man. Your brain does. Your penis just makes you male (kind of, it’s more complicated than this, but this is already a really long post). And, yet again, sexuality also isn’t gender. Wearing make-up does not make one attracted to boys. Again, comparing apples to oranges isn’t helpful, it just makes you look stupid.
This next comment is not malicious at all, but it shows a lot of ignorance. The commenter said “I don’t understand transgenders…like, why do they exist? Can someone pls explain?” I know how you feel: I don’t really understand cis (gender conforming) people. Like, I get why you exist, but…I don’t understand how you can live like that. Your lives must be so…boring! Again, it’s not “transgenders,” people. They are humans first and foremost. Why do they exist? Because genetics and hormones aren’t perfect. But mostly because we live in a society that insists on trying to fit us all into neatly labelled boxes.
Another commenter said “I feel for these kids I really do, these kids don’t need to be trans they need Jesus.” This isn’t a case of what the kids need. This is a case of who they are. The didn’t decide to be trans. And religion won’t change who they are. In fact, religion just seems to be good at killing off trans people faster.
This comment is another one simply born out of ignorance: “I was a gender nonconforming child, but once puberty hit I changed. Not all transgendered children will go on to be transexual in adulthood.” Yes, some gender nonconforming children grow up to be cis adults. But being gender nonconforming does not make you transgender. And transexual is generally seen as derogatory. Some transgender people call themselves transexual, but it’s generally considered something that they call call themselves but that other people shouldn’t call them. And “transgendered” isn’t a word. Transgender is a noun, not a verb. You don’t do transgender, you are transgender.
The next commenter said “Idiot Parents!!!!! Children should not have that decision until their 18.” What decision? The decision to wear what they want? A lot of people are under the impression that parents of trans kids whisk them off to have surgery the second they find out their kid is trans. It doesn’t work like that. Even trans adults aren’t able to just up and have surgery. First the parent has to take the kid to a therapist to be diagnosed as having gender dysphoria. Once the kid is diagnosed, then it’s possible for them to start taking hormone blockers come puberty. However, hormone blockers don’t come until puberty. Kids under the age of 11-12 don’t do anything more than wear the close they like and get their preferred haircuts. Why shouldn’t they be allowed to do that? Puberty blockers simply postpone puberty. They prevent the child from going through the wrong puberty. They are completely reversible and they prevent unnecessary future surgeries as well as emotional pain caused by going through something that the kids find distressing. Later on, around 16-18, they can start taking hormones that allow them to go through the correct puberty. These drugs aren’t given to younger children because they aren’t as easily reversible. These hormones can cause infertility and certain other permanent changes, but they are more easily reversed than surgeries are. The surgeries, if they are desired, come last. They can’t be done until the age of 18 (except in extreme circumstances). For people who took the hormone blockers, very little surgery is required. But without the hormone blockers, the required surgeries can be quite extensive and even dangerous (such as having the adam’s apple shaved). Can any of that really be said to be irresponsible?
The next commenter said “The amount of positive reinforcement the mother gives the child at 7:15 is disturbing. Trans children should be observed, not encouraged or dis-encouraged. Neutrality is what she should be showing.” So trans children should be treated as nothing more than lab rats? Giving them positive reinforcement doesn’t mean forcing them to do something. Being encouraged to be ones self doesn’t mean that one can never change. Gender is not something you can force on someone. They will be who they are regardless of how supportive or unsupportive you are, and encouraging them will not stop them from changing if they change.

right
I came across this gem next: “Ur stupid for say kids just wanna be homo. There kids they don’t know about sex. They know who they r n we need to support them.” This comment is supportive of the gender nonconforming children, but it is still problematic. Homo, like transexual, is a derogatory term. Kids may not know about sex, but their sexualities are in fact developed. This isn’t to say that sexuality can never change, but, for the most part, if a person is homosexual they have been since they were about 3.
The next person said “This is a sick abomination! This will only bring the judgement of God, these kids are obviously demon possessed and were probably sexually abused! Gods word is clear about this.” So anyone who doesn’t fit in to societal expectations must be possessed by a demon? And a sexually abused demon at that. Couldn’t a demon just burn anyone who tried to abuse them? Or make their insides explode or something? Why would your god even care about gender nonconformity in children? Doesn’t he have more important things to worry about? Like starvation and disease?
At this point I think I may have lost all faith in humanity. This next person said “Go get your heads looked at I wouldn’t let them have a surgery so that they could see who they really are.” So…it’s better that a person hide who they are than it is for them to have surgery to be happy with themselves? How…open-minded of you.
Then I came across this: “Don’t encourage this shit its not right.” What exactly would you propose we do? Should we send gender nonconforming children into the woods? Or maybe you’d prefer we set up a noose in their closet. After all, suicide rates are higher among gender nonconforming youth. You must think that death is best for them if you are against methods that help them.
This next comment is very rambley: “in a way transsexuals piss people off but what if a boy who naturally looked female aka Justin bieber. stays a male. just like Justin bieber whos trying to please people by being a male is not good enough for people. everyone wished Justin bieber dead even before his attitude change. they said he was a fag even though he dated girls. people wished death on him. so what if Justin bieber changed into a girl he would of been a pretty girl and people would hate him less. if a transsexual child didn’t tell anyone they were trans they would live happy the people around them would be happy but society says transsexuals need to tell people they are trans. why? so world war 3 can break out between haters and transsexuals? the males would beat the person up or perhaps kill them. it would bring anger out in many people. some things are best kept a secret and its no ones fucking business if a boy feels like a girl and lives that way. he or she isn’t hurting people or killing people. they aren’t stealing or raping. they are just being themselves and its become a crime for transsexuals to be themselves. people are more angry with transexualism than killers and rapists.” This is another comment that is meant to be supportive, but there is a lot of misunderstanding in it. Looking female is not the same as being trans. Justin Bieber doesn’t identify as male because he’s trying to please anyone. He’s male because he happened to be born with the right anatomy to be labelled as such. People don’t like Justin Bieber for many different reasons. Yes, some people are ignorant enough to hate him for looking feminine, but that isn’t the only reason people dislike him. People would not accept Bieber more if he had a sex change. In fact, he’d likely be treated worse. No, if a child who is trans didn’t tell anyone they would not be happier. In fact, they’d be far more likely to commit suicide. They’d become depressed because they were forced to hide who they are from the world. It isn’t healthy. It’s not society that tells trans people to come out as trans. Trans people are telling society that they cannot live their lives in a closet. They can’t hide who they are. You’re right, it is no ones business how another person identifies, but keeping who they are a secret isn’t healthy. They shouldn’t be forced to hide, they should be accepted for who they are.
Another person said “The girl boy with the glasses was already ugly either way why cut your hair.” The kid they’re referring to was 6 or 7. How is this at all appropriate to say of a child that young? And they are a boy, not a girl boy.




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9 responses to “Why Are People So Concerned About Gender NonConforming Children? Part 2

  • Caroline

    I think this all goes to show that different people mean different things by the same words 🙂

    Maybe not authoritative, but this may be a good working definition from people with large experience from a wide range of differently gendered people:

    http://www.lauras-playground.com/transsexual.htm
    http://www.lauras-playground.com/transgender.htm
    http://www.lauras-playground.com/transgender_terminology.htm

    But then I’ve heard slightly differing definitions from people in the chat room itself 😀

    Regarding the term “transgendered”, again, I guess it’s just what you’re used to and how you’ve heard it used in context. If it were an act then I’d say: “I have been transgendered”, or “I was transgendered”, whereas, “I am transgendered” is more adjectival usage, describing my present state. But I guess “I am transgender” works as well.

    Ultimately, as you say, you people should be referred to in the way they identify. Maybe it also depends on the audience too – I’ve often discussed this among others who identify as trans*. I do wonder that it is the effect that at the level we’re discussing the subject, we’d all past the point where the words have lost their pejorative sense and are all just used descriptively. It generally takes trans* people a long time to accept themselves for who they are, and part of that is (to a certain extent) stopping caring what other people think, and how they refer to us. I’ve finally accepted who I am, and don’t necessarily care how you refer to me, so long as you don’t do it in a derogative way. Someone could call me a “Tranny” because they don’t know better and I’d try to gently correct them. There are other circumstances I’d be less gentle.

    And it also goes to show I get more philosophical/grammatical/pedantic the more whisky I have 😉

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    • hessianwithteeth

      Lol. I agree that it takes a long time to accept themselves, but I think that a lot of that results from the fact that it can take years just to realize that these identities exist and you’re not the only one. For me, I knew I didn’t identify as a girl from a very young age, but I didn’t know how to put my feelings into words, nor did I have resources to figure out that I wasn’t the only one. It took me about 24 years to finally call myself genderqueer. A friend of mine didn’t realize that she was trans until she was about 19. Before then she thought she was just a guy with some strange preferences.

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  • Caroline

    At the risk of being picky about vocabulary, transgendered could be an adjective – that was the sense in which got the usage. 🙂

    Regarding transexual and transgender – the way I understand the terms is that transgender is someone who’s gender doesn’t match their body, and transexual is someone who has done something to correct that – anything from, I guess, surgery down to growing one’s hair long.

    I’ve also not seen any dislike for the term transexual in the communities I hang out in. When used in it’s technical sense. Of course, any word can be transformed in to a term of abuse, if that’s the intent of the speaker.

    Tranny, though, I *really* dislike 🙂

    xxx

    Caroline

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    • D.T. Nova

      Transsexual (two s’s) refers specifically to someone whose gender identity is the opposite of their birth sex. And I’ve never heard anyone say it was offensive either.
      Transgender is a newer and broader term; it includes transsexuals, crossdressers, genderqueer/genderfluid/agender people, and more.

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      • hessianwithteeth

        No, transsexual is generally used to refer to someone who is, or has, actively transitioning. Transgender refers to someone who identifies as the opposite gender they were assigned at birth. Trans* refers to anyone who is not cis, ie. anyone who does not identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. Most crossdressers and drag performers are cis.

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      • D.T. Nova

        Well, I got most of my information from Jennifer Diane Reitz’s site about transsexuality. This page defines both terms about the same way I just did.
        http://transsexual.org/What.html

        This page even has a ;letter suggesting that someone who has complete transition isn’t a transsexual anymore.
        http://transsexual.org/letters29.html

        Transgender is definitely widely used as a general inclusive term in my experience. (I have also seen it used as a synonym for transsexual, but mostly by people who also use the words “sex” and “gender” interchageably.)

        (And I wasn’t including drag performers when I said “crossdressers”.)

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        • hessianwithteeth

          There are communities that use transsexual, but it all depends on the community. I’ve also heard some people say that transgender people stop being transgender when they fully transition, but the trans people that I know find that idea insulting. They say that they will always be trans because they are required to go through that transition. And it suggest that the ultimate goal of a transgender person is to get the surgeries, which isn’t the case.

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    • hessianwithteeth

      Transgendered is generally a word people use to describe the act of being transgender, which is why transgender people (at least the ones I’ve talked to) don’t like it. Being transgender isn’t an act. It isn’t something they do. It’s a part of who they are. Saying that someone is transgendered would be like saying someone is blonded.
      Generally, transsexual is used that way, however, a lot of transgender people do not like the word because it has been used in a derogatory way. If someone is willing to refer to themself as transsexual, then it’s okay. But many transgender people prefer to just use transgender. It’s like calling someone queer: it’s best to let the person who carries the identity determine if they are willing to be referred to as a transsexual or not.

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