Your Religion Isn’t An Excuse For Hate

Here’s another one from Dances In Rain: http://wildaboutegypt.wordpress.com/2014/11/26/god-loves-gays/. This one is on homosexuality.

“…..Just not their behaviour.”
What behaviour? You mean who they fall in love with? How dare they love someone!
“Same with murders, paedophiles, thieves and adulterers. He loves everyone.”
Do you really want to say being homosexual is the equivalent of being a murderer? Seriously? Murderers, thieves, paedophiles, and adulterers hurt other people. Who, might I ask, do homosexuals hurt? Who does their love hurt? What crime (legally speaking, I don’t care about what your religion says. We’ll get to that later) are they commuting?
“He hates the sin.”
Why?
“I do NOT hate homosexuals. I hate the sin.”
Why? Without saying “the Bible says so,” can you give me a coherent argument as to why homosexuality is wrong? Can you explain to me why your God would even care about the sexuality of any given human?
“First of all, the Old Testament lists homosexual behaviour as one of the main reasons why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Just because it was the Old Testament doesn’t mean the sin isn’t still real.”
Actually, it doesn’t. The sins of the people are never explained. We don’t know what they did to deserve being destroyed. Homosexuality doesn’t come up until the angles are threatened with rape. It’s not the act of homosexuality, or even the threat of rape, that is the problem here. This story is meant to show that the people of Sodom were so depraved that they wouldn’t even treat guests with the proper respect they were due. At the time, it was expected that you would invite a stranger in your city/town to stay with you, and you would treat them as family. But the people of Sodom weren’t willing to extend that basic hospitality. In fact, they wanted to abuse the visitors.
“Also in the Old Testament, God defines homosexuality as sexually immoral behaviour, which comes up multiple times in the New Testament.”
Not really. Leviticus mentions it, but that’s about it. And that’s generally attributed to the author’s personal biases. Though it could easily be taken as not anti-homosexual: don’t lie with a man like you’d lie with a woman? Why would a gay man want to anyway? They’re having sex with a man, not a woman!
Did you know that both the relationship between David and Jonathan and Ruth and Naomi can be interpreted as homosexual in nature? Given how the words translate from Ancient Hebrew into English, they aren’t obviously platonic relationships.
“Now as far as New Testament goes;
‘Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.’
That’s 1 Corinthians 6:9-10”
In which version? Remember: the Bible was a book that has been translated many times, into and out of various languages. Very few versions actually say “homosexuality” in this passage. Most say something along the line of “men who abuse themselves of other men.” That’s not nearly so clear.
“In Matthew 15, Jesus talks about clean and unclean behaviour. Verse 19 and the beginning of verse 20 say, ‘For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man ‘unclean’.’”
This says nothing about homosexuality. At all. Sexual immorality could have been meaning rape, or bestiality. You’re reading it how you want to read it.
“Romans 1:27 says, ‘In the same way the men also abandoned their natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.’”
Again, homosexuality isn’t actually mentioned here. Lust is not the same as love, or a relationship. It’s not actually unheard of, historically, for straight men to sleep together when they are away from women for a long period of time. That doesn’t make them gay, it just meant that they found a way to fulfill a need.
“Notice how it says ‘natural relations with women’ which brings me to my next point.
Homosexuals were not born that way.”
Just because the Bible says something is natural, doesn’t mean it’s right. Yes, some men are naturally attracted to women, and some women are naturally attracted to men, but that doesn’t mean that men cannot be naturally attracted to other men, or both men and women, or to neither, etc. And the same can be true of women. Sexuality is a complex thing.
Where is your evidence (again, I don’t care about what the Bible says. I want actual evidence) that homosexuality is not natural? Because, according to medical professionals, it is perfectly normal, and most definitely not a choice.
“I know, it’s a nice excuse, but it doesn’t work like that. True, we are all born with a certain sin nature that we are prone to, but you can choose whether or not to act on it. Homosexuality is a learned sin like any other.”
Pray tell me, at what point did you decide to be straight?
“In the same way you can argue that murderers, paedophiles, and rapists were ‘born that way’ so they can’t help but do those things, right?”
Actually, as far as we know, they are born that way. At least, murders who are sociopaths/psychopaths are born that way, as are paedophiles. Rapists are likely taught that they have a right to a woman’s (or other persons) body, because most rapists don’t see themselves as rapists, though they will admit to forcing a woman (or other person) into sex if you don’t call it rape. That’s largely why we lock people up: to keep them away from other people so they don’t hurt them.
“Wrong. You have free will. Use it to follow something good.”
What do you classify as ‘good’? The Bible also says nothing about freewill. This is an idea posited by those outside of the Bible. There’s no reason to actually believe we have freewill. But if we do, and if God cares so much about our having freewill, why is he so willing to take it away? He took away Pharaohs freewill to prevent him from freeing the Israelites. He took away Saul’s freewill so he’d continue to chase David. Clearly God doesn’t value human freewill, he only values our obedience.
“This is also wrong, as homosexual behaviour destroys the sanctity of marriage. It is constantly working against traditional and Christian family values, making sinful behaviour an acceptable alternative.”
How? Where is your evidence? What has homosexuality done to traditional marriage? Do you even know what traditional marriage is? Traditionally, marriage meant shaking up. In some cultures, if you moved in together, you were married. In others, if the man could get the woman into his house before anyone stopped him, she was his wife. Monogamy wasn’t really a thing in early marriages either. In fact, “traditional marriage” in the Bible included men having many wives. And men could sleep with other women so long as they weren’t other men’s wives. What we consider “traditional marriage” wasn’t a thing until the Victorian Era.
“Then think of the children. Recent studies show that a child thrives best in a household with both a mother and father. Not two moms. Not two dads. They need both male and female role models to fill those important places in their lives.
Here’s a good study on it: http://www.citizenlink.com/2010/06/17/30-years-of-research-that-tells-us-a-child-deserves-a-mother-and-a-father/”
Actually, studies show that kids do best with two parents. Not specifically a mother and father. And some studies have shown that the fact that homosexual couples can’t accidentally have kids majorly improves their living conditions. Here are some studies:
http://www.bu.edu/today/2013/gay-parents-as-good-as-straight-ones/
http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting.aspx

Click to access Vol.%2014,%20No.%202,%205%20Kilgus.pdf

http://www.livescience.com/17913-advantages-gay-parents.html
“I realize a lot of people will disagree with me, and I would just please ask for you to be polite in the comments. I’m not being judgemental or hateful, and I sincerely hope I did not come across that way in my writing.”
Saying that you aren’t being hateful or judgemental doesn’t mean you aren’t being hateful and judgemental. You’re telling people that they are bad because of who they are. And you’re ignoring actual research to do so. How is that not hateful? Why do you think “but I love you anyway” makes it okay? And why do you feel entitled to ignore facts to the detriment of others?

Homosexuality Is Natural

http://www.livescience.com/44464-bonobo-homosexuality-natural.html

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/40018070?uid=3739392&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=21104759122871